Change photos library

[Diego Maldonado]

A feature I would consider a must have for the incoming MacOS Pixelmator Photo, would be the ability to open any photos library other than the system library. Many of us have an editing library where we store our RAW files, and our system library, synced with iCloud. Being able to manage the editing library from the app will really be a game changer, and a reason to move on from Lightroom. Please consider it. Thanks.

[Andy Hewitt]

I would suspect that's a very dangerous thing to attempt. AFAIK there's only one app trusted enough to manipulate the Photos libraries outside of Photos itself, and that's PowerPhotos by Fat Cat Software.

It might be possible, but the Photos library system is not all that robust, so I would be wary of trusting anything to manipulate them that isn't Photos itself (yeah, I've suffered a corrupt library trying this).

I think most apps have to access the Photos library using the System extensions system, which is handled as OS level, so I suspect in reality this is very difficult, or even impossible to achieve.

When you say 'many of us', I've never actually heard of this as a specific workflow before.

[albis photo]

Diego is right, possibility to choose library while opening "new from photos" would be really helpful. The thing is, that if you are importing all images from camera to certain library, that it is hard to open certain RAW image to edit it in original format.

[Andy Hewitt]

Not really sure what you're doing there.

I was basically saying that the limitation is with the Apple side of things, they restrict the way third parties can access the libraries. As it is they only allow direct access to the System Library. You *really* don't want to be messing with a library that isn't controlled by Photos.

One thing, on an iDevice - such as the iPad (which is the context of this forum for now), there is no access to any other library than the System/iCloud library anyway. All mobile devices have access to only one single library.

As for the editing workflow, that's clear that just wouldn't work. To edit the Raw file that's stored in Photos, using Photomator, then you simply need to open the image before any other editing is carried out. If you do as you suggest, then you're transferring across a final edited image, which will be in a rendered format (TIFF or JPEG). There is no link to the original Raw, so what you want above is simply not possible.

If you need to open the original Raw, then you need to put it into the System Library, and open it in Photomater *before* you apply any editing. Then you can open the original Raw file. Any edits applied there also save a rendered JPEG (as the visible Preview image). Any further editing will only be applied to that JPEG version. If you want to go back to editing the Raw, then you have to revert it back to the original.

This applies to the editing workflow in any direction. As soon as any app applies any edits, then you're working on the saved JPEG preview version afterwards. Doesn't matter if it was Photos or Photomator, or any other app that was used.

Of course, you can change the System library, but it's a cumbersome and time consuming process, and has so much potential to cause havoc with your image collection, especially if you do use iCloud to share the images across devices (you've got to wait for all devices to sync, each time you do this). Lightroom (cloud version) doesn't even have the option for more than one library, even on local storage.

This also applies to any combination of Raw editing workflows available, whether it's Lightroom, Photos, Capture One, or whatever, it's a basic limitation of the non-destructive workflow system. To carry out further editing, you have to do that in the app that you first used. The only way it might work between apps, is if there was actually a standardised protocol for Raw editing data - which has never happened between different app companies. There can sometimes be some collaboration between different apps if they're by the same company (such as Lightroom + Photoshop, but even that's not entirely straight forward).

So, my summary is, that what you're asking is extremely unlikely to be possible, for very good reasons. And, if anyone did offer such a feature, I'd be very very wary of it breaking your Photos libraries, and losing data.

[Frank McPartland]

Hello: I think there are many Mac users that don't use the Apple Photos App Library and maintain large image libraries on external drives. I recognize the intent of Photomator is to play well within the current Apple Photos App Library structure, but I would love to be able to work with my files independently (on some jobs, I might take 12,000 pictures--I'll use Photo Mechanic to cull 11,500 and hopefully use Photomator to adjust the remaining files--these files will never see iCloud or my iPhone). I realize that I may be a small portion of your intended market....Thanks!

[bzx]

Not really sure what you're doing there..

Diego meant something different that you're vigoriously trying to explain here – we* would like to use Photomator without any connection to Apple Photos library, but rather organise/edit any folder with photos. Currently the workflow is synced with Apple Photos, any photo you add in Photomator appears there and vice versa. The ideal situation is that this would be disconnected, and I could tell Photomator to open a folder on my disk (or external drive) to be able to organise and edit them.

I was writing to Photomator support when the Mac app was announced last year, and they said that such workflow would be possible – in the same way that the iOS app can do it (browse Photos library or Files, where you can have photos stored in folders). Not sure if that's still the plan.

* I wrote "we", as that's Diego and myself, so there are at least 2 of us

[Yad]

I too would like the ability to open other Apple Photos libraries in Photomator. I have multiple libraries and although only the System library syncs over iCloud, you can open and maintain multiple libraries with Apple Photos (just hold the option key when you start it).

I know I would lose the iCloud syncing editing from another library but the organisational features (such as ratings which Photos itself doesn't support) would be hugely helpful. Right now, I open a secondary library in Apple Photos and use the Pixelmator Pro extension to edit these photos one at a time. Photomator could make this so much simpler and if it adds more of the Pixelmator Pro features over time, could be all I ever need to organise and edit my photos.

By the way, RAW Power is an editor that already allows you to open and switch between multiple Apple Photos libraries.

[Peter Lawrence]

I also use multiple Photos libraries + pixelmator pro for keeping a separate work and personal library.

I actually assumed photomator would work the same as photos and tried dragging the work photos library into the app icon and it imported all the content into my personal library instead

Hopefully this gets implemented soon as I bought Photomator for mac primarily for processing my professional work - not my personal iCloud library!

[Andy Hewitt]

One of the Pixelmator team has answered this elsewhere I think. What you’re trying to do wouldn’t work, and is not possible, Apple limit access by third party apps to the System Library. What you attempted is really risky for corrupting the library. You should never manipulate Apple Photos libraries independently of Photos itself.

What you’re all asking for is not something for Pixelmator to fix, this is an Apple limitation. It’s there for good reason, along with the ‘Allow’, ‘Don’t Allow’ dialogue. Both are Apple’s protection systems to prevent users from screwing up their library - which is all too easily done, even with the protections in place.

And, FWIW, even Adobe’s Lightroom’s cloud system works similarly, there are workarounds for it, but they’re not recommended, and you can easily wipe thousands of images by just getting one step in the setup wrong (been there, done it, got the T-shirt).

It’s a bit easier if you don’t use the iCloud system, and are just working locally on a desktop, but you still need to switch libraries, and then make it the ‘system’ library each time. To me that’s just a disaster waiting to happen (knowing from experience how fragile the photos library can be).

The workflow suggested here is best done using an old fashioned folder system, and then export from Photomator, then import into Photos.

[Aurelija]

What you’re all asking for is not something for Pixelmator to fix, this is an Apple limitation.

And it still remains a system limitation for now. We were sort of hoping for this year's WWDC to bring some new advancements but from what we can see, it seems there are still no new APIs available that would allow such integration just yet.

[Charles Teton]

Hello: I think there are many Mac users that don't use the Apple Photos App Library and maintain large image libraries on external drives. I recognize the intent of Photomator is to play well within the current Apple Photos App Library structure, but I would love to be able to work with my files independently (on some jobs, I might take 12,000 pictures--I'll use Photo Mechanic to cull 11,500 and hopefully use Photomator to adjust the remaining files--these files will never see iCloud or my iPhone). I realize that I may be a small portion of your intended market....Thanks!

Ditto, editing files outside Apple's Photos is an absolute must.

[Russell Kelley]

Hi All

Am just posting my workflow as an example for others / Photomator people of how I use Photos. I'm a natural historian science communicator who publishes field guides to corals and other marine life. I go on regular field trips and return with thousands of Raw images. Each trip is logged / keyworded as its own Photos library - never the system - no iCloud etc. I have over 100 of these 'trip' libraries (scientific field trips recording underwater images of corals) spanning nearly 20 years - PowerPhotos allowed me to migrate the old material from the iPhoto days. Each library has thousands of images.

I use PowerPhotos to load and search multiple individual Photos libraries by Keywords. I then create compiles of similarly keyworded images from multiple libraries into a master compile. These compiles (usually of particular types of corals from many different field trips) then form the basis of my publishing work. I am hoping to use Photomator (like Pixelmator Pro before it) to dip into images for further / better Raw editing than possible in Photos itself. Particularly masking with brushes / AI tools etc.

So my current image workflow uses Photos as my general image library manager. PowerPhotos as my library merging / compiler. What I would like to be able to do is exploit the more powerful tools of Photomator in these individual libraries.

From the discussions above I get the feeling I will not be able to navigate to, and open, a Non-system Photos library unless Apple grants that technically. However I am still unclear whether I will be able to open a non-system Photos library and have it allow me to edit Raw images externally using Photomator (like I can with Pixelmator Pro) and save the edits.

I gather that (from discussions above) it's a one shot thing and that if I want to re-edit an image I would need to start by reverting to original.

[Shelton]

This is being beta tested now (version 3.3) see this youtube video if you haven't already:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDgHv8m09uw

Shelton.